PhD 'failure' rates revealed

<p>Bristol only has a 90% pass rate because it will not give students that it has failed the appropriate training and facilities - I should know as I have just failed a PhD viva because of this. Before submitting I asked 2 external academics, as well as my supervisors (one who would not read the thesis and the other said he did but failed to mention the shortcoming that irritated the examiners) for opinions and they gave my work their full support. <p>In my case after I made a complaint that I was not offered the facilities that other students had, a memo was sent by the Post Grad Dean to staff stating that it was up to them to show that the failing was down to myself and not them. I would never recommend anyone to study in that Department.

UK Universities frequently breach their contracts with PHD students, starting with passive departments and supervisors who don't care about PHD students and the outcome is failure. <p>When a PHD student fails, Uk universities have a tendency to blame the student rather than finding the real reason of the failure; most of the times it is a mix of inadequate level of supervision, procedural irragularities and inappropriate selection of the examiners. <p>Successful stories of passing a PHD after failing a PHD viva can be found ONLY by sueing the University. <p>Any student willing to be involved in PHD studies has to consider the risk. Passive and authoritarian departments and supervisor should be eliminated from the education system. However, the bureaucratic UK education system lacks of a proper monitoring of Universities, departments and supervisor to ensure a high customer service.

During the first four years of my PhD, I had three different supervisors, only the first of whom knew anything about what I was working on. Nedless to say, that hasn't worked out very well.

Bearing in mind Hefce highlights Bristol as one of the top 4 institutions for timely PhD completions, but Gill Griffin "would never recommend anyone to study in that Department", where would Gill Griffin recommend prospective PhD candidates to apply instead? <p>On the basis of Gill's testimony, Hefce's recommendation would seem to be no recommendation at all!

There are two sides to this. I had a PhD student who was supervised by myself and two other colleagues. All three of his supervisors left within 18 months of his starting. He was motivated enough not only to know what was expected of him by reviewing the regulations but he worked himself silly. He deserves credit. <p>On the other hand, another student I know at a different university has had no help from her supervisor, and will not complain as "it will harm my future references". This "fear" is typical and nothing is done about it. This student is struggling with writing up. <p>There are stories on both sides of this argument, but independence should be built in to the process. Currently, you will find that it is anything but independent.

In an ideal world, it should be the ability of the student that decides whether or not they pass. After much deliberation between a new university (ex-polytechnic) and another 'establishment' university, I elected to study at the new university as at the time their set up seemed clearer and more professional. For me at least, I chose correctly as I got the right balance of support and independence (i.e. freedom to develop certain aspects of the project) I needed to produce a solid volume of work (in fact too much work). From my own experiences, I believe that whilst it is reasonable for a prospective student to expect support in relation to subject and literature guidance, access to facilities, correct selection of external examiners, etc., the student should also be highly self-reliant and be able to decide how to approach the problem that may befall them. Students expectations can vary quite widely in this respect. However, there are instances where a supervisor either fails to offer the correct or sufficient support, or is so overbearing as to make life intolerable for the student. When I finished, I left to do a year's post-doc at the other 'estabilshment' university I'd decided against studying at and found handling there of personnel in general (students and post-docs) extremely variable. Had I opted for the 'establishment' University, I am fairly convinced from my dealings with the relevant staff that I would not have completed the Ph.D. on offer there. Unfortunately in these cases, the student may have little recourse for action. One problem some students (and staff) face if they try to complain over their treatment then the University can close ranks and ensure that the 'problem' goes away (i.e. the person would move on), somethng I have seen happen. The candidate could well leave with no Ph.D. and no usable references if they made too much noise. Mackem_Beefy

As a student I had wretched support. My supervisor met me about 10 times during the 4 years and had little idea about my work. On balance it worked out well since I learned to be self-reliant but it could easily have gone the other way had I gone down a research blind-alley. I

I left after 7 years studying for a PhD. I don't regret leaving as the PhD itself would not have been of benefit in non academic jobs. But I regretted not having left earlier when it was obvious that my supervisor only wanted students to bring in funding but otherwise had no real interest in the student. As a result, the debt that has to be paid off is now much larger.

I've just had a PhD examination failure in a leading university and am in the process o making sense of what to do. Reasons? Total lack of supervision, wrong choice of examiners, no one to review it before submission... I am looking for a lawyer to take my case further and will appreciate any help. don.antunes@gmail.com

I have three weeks til i have to hand in my thesis. Needless to say that i too have not had much support and have contemplated quitting atleast a hundred times a day. But i am no quitter and i hope that if i am ever in a position where i am supervising i will remember my own experiences and ensure that i do not do a shoddy job as ive seen others do.

I was in my late 40's when accepted into a UK university on a studentship. I made the mistake of thinking that I could raise questions or concerns regarding fair and reasonable treatment of students. I have paid an extremely high price for having a strong sense of what is right and wrong in the treatment of international students - in this case those studying in the UK at an institution transforming from a technical college and not fully prepared to administer PhD programmes. I am absolutely HEART BROCKEN at my experience. I no longer have respect for the institution who may as yet award my degree. Hummmm!!! At the lack of accountability among academics who protected themselves and especially their time and future at the expense of fair treatment and support for good research. There can be no excuse for such self serving inaction. The weakest, the most easy to compromise and dismiss pay the immediate and substantial cost of such poor practice. In the long-term high drop outs of phd students and graduates who continue such self serving practices will be the downfall of such institutions. Their walls are already crumbling. I will survive. I will take every opportunity to make comment on the decline of UK academic practices. I doubt if it is limited to these institutions. j I would hope the TES can have a voice in addressing such issues as there are no organizations that have a mandate to address concerns expressed by international students who run into subtle but often hard hitting discrimination and what amounts to harassment when they speak up and put those who have more power in a position to account for, or in actual fact just ask them to do the right thing, even if it is not the more easy thing. Social justice doesn't exist when people bury their heads in their salary and safety net of advancement and fail those they should be supported to help. There are problems.

At three years when my student ship was up my supervisor made a complaint about my conduct. The head of school called me in for a 10 minute meeting. I was informed another person would be supervising. That person commented only on grammar and spelling – I was found to be borderline dyslexic. Financially I could not afford to continue. I suspended. I lost all library privaleges, email contact even though my study had a critical component to manage via email. I had to vacate my office. I was an international student. I was told to go home, quite. I did not. A new professor was hired. I told them my circumstance. They saw me through editing – ensured 2 external examiners. When one retired 6 days before the examination. The university did nothing, took no interest in the situation. Once again I felt abandoned. I was by then destitute. The recession had hit. No real work was forthcoming. I was getting a bit of work as a janitor – I physically was jepordising my health because of a diseased spine. We were fired, laid-off and rehired 2-3 times last chirstmas. I was behind 2 months in my rent and eating by way of a church food bank. I had a job offer back home. I almost could not get enough money together to return home and take the job. That job allowed me to speak at an conference in Europe and return to defend my thesis. The University did nothing to support this. My supervisor as had been the case was tremendous. Going way beyond. I successfully defended. Was told correction – 6 months. They did not need to see the dissertation again. I have done the corrections. My supervisor is happy. Was having the thesis bound in the UK. Had asked about process and policies and help around this process – there was none. Two days ago I get notice that the administrative staff at the registry think the dissertation should go back to the examiners. My supervisor writes them to argue that this was not required but I now have an email from the vice chancellor stating it will go to the examiners. I no longer care to have a PhD from this institution. I care about all the work and effort my supervisor put in. I care that I raised some concerns as an international student and instead of those individuals who could have done the correct thing they chose to make me the problem. So here I am successfully defended, thesis bound and my degree in jeopardy from an institution with one of the highest non-completion rotes for PhDs. An amazing supervisor who I wander if they will ever agree to supervisor PhDs at the place again. I have no rights in this, no recourse, no sense that there can be any justice. A real confirmation that academics can close ranks and make completion impossible should they chose. The research is not important. Social justice – well there is no avenue for complaint so none.

@jan. Undertook PhD with a studentship in your late 40s? You took risk. Obviously you cannot write, which is a critical ability a PhD student should possess. The university may have another version of the story.

John what do think a PhD is about? Perhaps it is about an intellectual activity and contribution to knowledge that life experience can contribute a lot too. As for writing - honestly do really think anyone posting to a list writes their finest. Good to have high standards if you, yourself are not on a podium. When individuals chose to make personal attacks rather than address issues well it simply says a lot and my goodness isn't there a lot of theory crossing so many disciplines to account for such low behavior. Happy Holiday

jan wrote without taking any responsibility for his failure. As for 'Happy Holiday', we wish 'Merry Christmas' here to every one instead of the American Politically correct 'Happy Holidays'.

@Izz. Surely you have misconception about PhD you undertook in this country. Besides the poor posting, you seem to blame just about any one . Did it ever occur to you that you were not 'a doctoral material' as your country men say? In your country dissertation is carried out after you took courses at doctoral level and successfuly passed Phd candidate exams. In those stages, poor candidates are filtered out before they reach the stage of work on dissertation. You were offered a studentship in Britain, you took it and you did not deliver. You seem to accuse that you did not get support. What does the 'support 'mean? Your supervision ( advising) was not good? Did you expect your supervisor ( advisor) to help you with the research work? You say "in this case those studying in the UK at an institution transforming from a technical college and not fully prepared to administer PhD programmes". What do you mean? Most of these 'transformed institutions' are perfectly capable of handling PhD programmes . Did it not occur to you that in a PhD work you are alone responsible and if you do not deliver goods, you fail. @John is right. do not blem him. You posted first about your problem. I agree that there re two sides to a story. We heard yours.

The dreaded typo. "do not blem him." --do not blame him. There can be another reason-cultural difference! Brits and Americans are separated by a common language! It always pays to do some research work about the department and the university before embarking on a PhD programme.

The dreaded typo. "do not blem him." --do not blame him. There can be another reason-cultural difference! Brits and Americans are separated by a common language! It always pays to do some research work about the department and the university before embarking on a PhD programme.

Jan, is there any absolute barrier to re-presenting your thesis to the examiners? Do they require a re-examination fee? It's not unusual for examiners to need to see corrections. You've done too much work, surely, not to re-submit. I can see you might feel demotivated, but take heart from your supervisor's confidence.

I am not borderline but severely dyslexic, yet surprisingly I agree with John. Sure, in timed exams and on message boards dyslexic people should be cut a bit of slack, but at the end of the day a PhD is essentially vocational qualification. Either you can produce written work to a high enough standard within a given timeframe or you can't. In my case, for example, it means I often start writeups weeks and even months before the other students around me and have to proofread so many times I want to tear my hair out through boredom by the time I hand the wretched things in. In cases of inadequate help with the research I have deepest sympathy, but near-professional quality writing is a skill most people start a PhD with and should certainly have by year 3.

In my department my self funded PHD research was used by my supervisor as advertising to promote his own work (impact factor for referencing his work in conferences). I was also used for cheap labour - doing marking and teaching and organising conferences for no or very little pay. There are lots of researchers who fake their results at PHD level to justify extra funding and much research is duplicated with the people spending most of their time trying to play the system and get funding for 5 star hotels at pointless conferences abroad which are really little more than elaborately disguised holiday breaks. The department also admits many students from abroad who turn up for a day and dissapear (perhaps an immigration scam?). And don't get me started about the abuse of the departmental credit card. It is surprising this place still survives and goes to show that no one properly polices higher education at postgraduate level.