Rankings 09: Asia advances

I am impressd about the university rankings for 2009. I have visited some of those top 200 universities and they continue to improve in their research. Well documented report. Prem Yapa School of Accounting ald Law RMIT University Melbourne Australia

As a Hong Konger, I am really very happy to see that Hong Kong universities are in high quality. For me, I have studied in the Chinese Univeristy of Hong Kong (CUHK), and I felt that is really great and they offered green environment with quality education and facilities.

hi, i am from the philippines, and i wonder how the philippine universities fared in the rankings. where can i see the top 500 or so rankings?

We all know that Australia has the best universities outside UK & US.

I'm very sceptical about these results. After all, the top is dominated by English speaking countries and the tables seem to be based mainly through people's perceptions, therefore, the best known universities in the world are at the top. I'm sure if fresh graduates from all the universities were given the same examination just after their studies and these tables were based on those results the table would look a lot different.

It is always quite interesting to see that British institutions are still regarded as the top of the world. (I just compare it with the FT MBA rankings as well, where UK institutions dominate all rankings). As someone from the continent I only can say "Long live the British Empire!" It seems to me that the stereotype of British domination is still very alive in UK. A closer look at the British economy, engineering and scientifc achievements, however, reveals the the mental fraud. Travelling across UK, I often realize that UK is frozen in time. Sometimes the technology, housing and machines are like from a 3rd world. London Metro is like from 1899. Trains across the country are like in the 30s. Communication technology is like mid of last century. I would have reasoned that with all the best universities, as you have figured out yourself, only bright scientist and engineers evolve. It's an illusion. Travel across Europe, marvel at French TGV trains, drive German cars and have a look at Spanish solar power plants and you will see that others, with officially inferior schooling systems, have achieved far more. Your university ranking is an illusion, buried in century long self-perception of world dominance. I am sorry to write that, but it is true. The British dominance is long gone, same with academic instituions. Your ranking list is an ancient dinosaur.

What is the relevance of this ranking to the real world. Do these rankings actually translate to financial and economic prowess.? I have my doubts.

Impressive, but I just noticed that Taiwan University counts in China? It's weird, I think Taiwan doesn't really means China. Can you change it?

The rankings are measured by Academic Peer Ranking (40%), Citations (20%), Staff-student ratio (20%), Graduate employment (10%), International Staff (5%) and International Students (5%). Really they tell us very little about the quality of Universities. Personally, I think they are very useful for academics to look at and choose where they would like to work, but utterly useless for students deciding where to get the best education. In fact, if you look at UK Universities at the moment, many of these top universities are being lampooned for appalling teaching, such as having 3rd year UG students marking 1st year UG papers!! Unfortunately, these tables are a mechanism of globalization. In order to be a top University now, you have to develop a strategy which gains top marks in the categories that the Times or Shanghai Jiaotong say are important.

Are you joking? UC-Berkeley is being ranked lower than Hong Kong University? I think the whole survey is looking at those schools purely from the perspective of UK. So sorry for that. a HKU alumni.

Hi Eddy, where did you see that Taiwan University counts in China? I know this often happens internationally, but in the 200 list Taiwan University is marked as being in Taiwan.

As a UCL Professor of Nanotechnology and Regenerative Medicine I am pleased UCL moved to number 4, and i am sure would not be long it resach number 1. So well done to UK and specially to UCL,

It also seems to me that there is a bias in favour of the universities of English-speaking countries. Yet, I recognize that evaluating the "performance" of universities is difficult since they operate in different conditions (such as : the level of the students when they enter the university. Do you count that as "university performance" ?). I would also like to attract attention to the fact that this ranking method favours universities of huge sizes (better scores in Peer review than several smaller universities combined for example) while there is nothing to prove that education is better (nor worse) than in small institutions.

Martin where on earth did you go when "travelling" across the UK. "Sometimes the technology, housing and machines are like from a 3rd world. London Metro is like from 1899. Trains across the country are like in the 30s. Communication technology is like mid of last century" What a load of rubbish HAHA. You sure you weren't somewhere else? I've seen the state of the french/italian and American subway systems and they are appaling when compare to the London Underground. Trains give over just because there hugh speed doesn't mean better ! and communication where on earth were you looking? everyone you pass has an Iphone or latest touch screen! phones in homes you looking in every single one were you? and phone boxes if thats what your on about hardly anyone uses them anymore !!! Honestly. Think you want to look at the country as a whole before you tag us as a 3rd world country ! Rule Britannia

I'm slightly concerned about a survey that asked academics and employers to rate education based on what Mike pointed out, not least because those with an interest in maintaining a ranking will be likely to take part in the survey and give top marks based on their own bias, where as those without an interest might be less inclined. Also, the nature of voluntary surveys themselves protect the existing hierarchical structure of expensive educational instututions thereby ensure their dominance in the 'educational market' (and it is a market) which feeds directly back to the employers themselves. In effect, I find this kind of survey meaningless and just anoter way for big instutuions, just like corporations to promote themselves endlessly. (I am a gradute of one of these universities. I thought it most over-rated)

Impressive! Hong Kong will be Asia No.1 very soon!!!!

Jonathan, Of course these rankings translate into economic prowess and continued influence! Private education of international students (from Asia, Africa, South America) is big business, certainly in the UK. These students then go on to ranked universities, and, increasingly, the exorbitant fees their parents/governments pay make up for the shortfall in government funding in many of these institutions. This is even more pressing now that the financial services sectors in many of the ranked universities are going through very challenging times!

Hi, where do I find the criteria for the ranking? I would like to know more about the evaluated factors. Thanks a lot from Germany.

To Ian Mann: "...except for Canadian universities of course"

this seems to be for undergraduate university criteria -- what about graduate schools?

If they considered student satisfaction as a category then this ranking would be completely different.

Year after year, the Times Higher Education keeps on refusing to address the reasons why this list is so biaised in favour of English-speaking language institutions. Looking at the league table of countries, you can see that Honk-Kong is placed higher than France: with no deamening comment intended to Hong-Kong, who can possibly think that such a small island plays a bigger role in world research and technological advancement than a country like France, which is the 5th largest economy in the world, has the second oldest university in the world (the Sorbonne), world-renowned researchers like last year's Medecine Nobel Prize winners and is the world's 4th largest recipient of international students? Even Belgium is better ranked than France in this ranking! Again, Belgium has some very fine institutions, but it just doesn't have the critical size compared to its larger neighbour! What we need to know is to whom the questionnaires evaluating peer review and employeers assessement are sent, in which language are they written, and what is the nationality of the people who responded. You will probably find out that most faculty staff and employeers who responded to this survey were US- or UK-based. Martin, even though I wouldn't go as far as saying British infrastructure are third-world class, I totally agree with you about the ludicrous dominance of UK institutions in their ranking.

About 80% of the 200 top ranked come from US, Europe, Canada, Australia and new Zeland. And I agree in its totality. top US universities are wealthy institutions with billions of dollars invested in research. harvard endowment is 36 billion, Yale over 20, princeton over 10. Who can match that?

I have attended Universities in India, Germany, Japan and Canada. When it comes to rigor an content there is no system as effective as the Indian system - tough competition, good professors and good classmates as they come through national enterance exams. Germany too has programs that are rigorous and professors spend time with students. Japanese Universities in reality are tough to get in but a walk in the park afterwards till you come to another enterance exam. Canada, Australia ... don't make me laugh. You mention Maths or Stats and the students start whining. They like to do everything without quantitative work. Professors don't teach -they get sessionals. Indeed, rankings such as these are a farce and pre-determined. The world is changing and future knowledge workers will come from Asia and non-English speaking European countries who are serious about studies and not rankings. And let me add research - the meaningless theoretical research that comes out of North America is only because of networks of academics scratching each other's backs! If there is relevant applied reserach that can change the world - look at Europe and Asia. But carry one ... how long will you toast "what was."

The ranking study has been conducted for six years. However, feedbacks from most academician seems to be far from encouraging. While the academicians from the less reputable universities might unevitably criticise the ranking methodology, some academicians from the top univeristies were also seen not favourable or less convincing to quote their university ranking publicly. In order to improve the ranking creditabilty and gain better universal acceptance, the survey conductor should put more effort to make the survey less biased. Human is hardly avoid to make biased decision. Thus, the numbers of reviewers involved in the survey should be well represented globally. Data collected should be make more transparent to public.

Wow, Israel:(only 5 000 000 people ) 3 !!!!!, not even 1 from muslim (over 1000 000 000 people )countries :(

Is it really possible that the best 20 universities are based in English speaking countries (first exception: ETH Zurich at 21st position)? If so, then why are products from Japan or Germany normally superior to those made in the US or the UK?And why does hardly anybody from those countries speak a foreign language if the universities are that great? I think that your survey is biased.

though india is becoming an education hub it still has a looong.....way to go!!!!!

This ranking is seriously flawed. We should wait for SJTU ranking. Nothing much to say.

If below stats and facts are to be believed even in a narrowed sense: "Asian students (from China, Japan, and India) constituted more than half of international enrollments, and Europeans were the second largest regional group, with 15 percent of U.S. enrollments. More than two-thirds (67%) of all international students in the United States receive their primary source of support from non-U.S. sources. These sources include personal and family funds. U.S. colleges and universities provide approximately 19 percent of funds and home governments/universities provide 4 percent." 1. Many brightests minds come from universities not in this elite group.. 2. This is hugely biased with marketing tricks to attract money and talent, that keep these heavy weights rolling.. Give me a break..

Some of the posters are on here are just demonstrating their own narrow mindedness and reaffirming the superiority of Western education. These booming Asian economies are often booming as a result of Western influence. Look at the rocketing markets of India, HK, Singapore, China, etc, etc. Who do you think taught the elites of these markets the capitalism they currently enjoy? Do you really think that the top brass within these economies studied at home? As for France I can only assume its because John Christophe is not lecturing in the culinary classes…

Let me point out how ridiculous this ranking is. UC Berkeley is ranked as a top 5 university in all specialty areas by this same Times Supplement; gets top , 100 scores both in both academic and employment reputation scores, and yet ends up as number 39 overall. Why? By its nature, as a public university, it admits few international students, and thus gets a very low "international student score". On the other hand, most European universities, by obvious institutional reasons, have much higher international student ratios. Since THES appears to weigh this factor very highly, UCB (as well as other public UC universities) got slaughtered in its so-called "ranking". These strange results make me wonder if the point of the exercises was truly an intention to rank universities based on their inherent quality, rather than an attempt to extol the virtues of studying in the UK. Finally, as a graduate of both UCB and Cambridge University, I am surprised to see Berkeley's staff/student ratio being so low. It's not entirely obvious to me if the situation is really so dismal at Berkeley, compared to most European Universities. More likely, someone needs to check their numbers.

As a CityU graduate, I am really glad to see the great leap of alma mater's ranking. Despite having only a history of 25 years, it is so encouraging to see that it has jumped to top 200 over these years. It is not an easy job indeed.

Hi Gunter, you can see what Eddie said from the table iisted just above " readers' comments" .

Please don't trust this ranking. It is highly notorious ! !

To Ashe, who comments on the rigor of an Asian v. Western education, may I remark that your argument is ridiculous. As a student with a Yale BA, a Cambridge MA, and who studied at JNU in Delhi for a year, India is FAR behind in education quality at the tertiary level. Sorry, but doing quantitative work does NOT make your work more rigorous, though science students love making themselves arrogantly believe in this fallacy. That is one of the big problems with Indian schools: they are obsessed with turning out technical professionals, with vocational training. India needs LIBERAL ARTS! It can't be stressed more. India will NEVER enter the ranks of world institutions unless it embraces an education grounded in something more than making money and gaining social status. US and Western schools focus on genuine indicators of intelligence: critical reasoning and creative thinking. India still gives little value to such important systems of thought, even at JNU which has some of India's brightest and most creative minds. Ashe, everyone knows that the National Entrance Exams in India are a joke. They teach students to cram useless information without any individual or creative thinking whatsoever. When I was in India I knew that I was smarter and much better trained than Indian students, though I kept quiet. You need to stop fooling yourself, Ashe. I noticed you did not mention the US in your analysis. That is because you have never been to one, and have no idea how much harder and more rigorous an education there is. This alone has allowed US institutions to hold there position strong among the most preeminent. The money in the endowments comes later.

As an Indian national, Canadian Grad student, I am quite appalled at India's low ranking. Even the venerable IITs struggle in the bottom 200. . My undergrad school that has been around for over 100 years and has alumni spread across some of the biggest corps and research institutions world over still does not have a half decent website! Testimony to the fact that Indian institutions continue to have some of the best students in the world, despite 'cattle class' support, and unimaginative and archaic government policies.Huge insult to a nation that has 1 billion people!

This ranking system is terribly bias towards UK schools. UCL and Imeperial above UC Berkeley and Princeton?? Give me a freaking break. This is a total joke!

I want there should be at least one univeristy of pakistan in top 200.National univeristy of science and technology (NUST) of pakistan which will be in top 200 in upcoming years inshallah. Adeel Chaudary Student of IT at NUST islamabad.

OK Computer ranked higher than Revolver? Give me a break!

The best part of this survey are the respnoses given by people who should have been the ones to judge. The survey is bias and far from the truth.

Hong Kong Baptist University (HKBU) rocks!

Rankings are OK, trends even better. Great to read that Asian countries move "upwards". However, although the report presents the Top200, it is poor reporting not to mention the African continent's efforts, or at least situaton. We are living in a global and digital world. And to get the picture right, a more holistic thinking and reporting seems appropriate. CZ

I think this ranking system should be scrapped altogether because it is not only misleading but also bias towards English speaking institutions and not credible.

This is a flawed methodology to rank universities and, unfortunately, ongoing process (for many years). This method like the majority of other schemes favors significantly big commercial universities with huge propaganda machine and lavish IP office, and in a considerable number of cases, academically inefficient and mediocre. If one considers the components and indicators, the incorrect measurables standout (I am surprised why so few from academia speak out, even if you are from that institution; integrity is a virtue!). As a researcher from Canada who worked with a number of the high ranked ones, I can highlight the following: -Unlike US, universities in Canada are government-funded, it is based on lobbying and this sort of advertisements. So if you get more money to subsidize the tuition fees and reduce it (e.g., high ranked ones), more international students are attracted. This does not translate to academic quality as they do not have it, especially in undergraduate level. -Some institutions are highly ranked by peer review that is basically the determining factor while the citation per researcher is low compared to the other ones which are lower ranked. This is basically the main and only parameter one can measure. So what is the peer review based on? TV commercials or a nice name? Furthermore, equating the quality of some of the Canadian universities (remember I am a graduate of them) with some of top US universities that are giants in terms of scope and supporting funding based on this peer review factor is ridiculous. Care should be taken in publishing these type of evaluation as it can falsely promote big saturated institutions, help them further manipulate the media and devalue good works in smaller and younger universities, and eventually take them over.

I wish if Pakistani universities would have been taken into consideration as well, hmmmm.............its amazing,

Your methodology for overall rankings is obviously flawed. Please explain this. In your lists of rankings for specific fields Stanford ranks in the top 10 in every single field (engineering #3; life sciences #4; natural sciences #9; social sciences #6; and arts and humanities #7). Yet in the overall rankings Stanford comes in number 16. Explain how that works? Interestingly, Imperial College London and University College London are ranked number 4 and 5 overall, despite coming in lower than Stanford in every single field ranking. The English Empire lives on, at least in the eyes of the Times.

There are no good universities in Italy? It's very strange from a Country that produced such a brilliant guy as our PM...

Muy bueno el artículo, no obstante es bueno diferenciar aquellas Universidades que reciben aporte estatal.

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I am not sure what the overall ranking means. It appears that the ranking by expertise means very little in the overall scheme. Schools such as UC Berkeley, Stanford rank consistently in the top five 5 or 8 in each of the five areas of expertise but then were ranked in the 20's or 30's in the overall.

Okay to rank universities but what makes this whole excercise global? I concur with CZ when he calls it 'poor reporting not to mention the African continent's efforts, or at least situaton'. If you are living in that part of the globe and you can read, then you are meant to read about the 'world' you live in not neccessarily one you belong to? Come on African Universities, get on the league table. After all, loads of Afican students continue to gain addmissions to pursue graduate studies in Institutions we see dominating the top ranks of global higher education.

NUST, Pakistan deserves the place in top 150 at least. It is the only struggling university, which found it's way in just 10 years.

NUST, Islamabad, Pakistan definitely deserves under 150.

Why not France? In the French system, research and teaching areas are separated, and the most prestigious and selective schools (business and engineering) do not do research and have a small number of students compared to university. Also, best students do not go to University but to these prestigious schools, and for graduate level jobs, companies mostly recruits from these schools, not from university. Considering the ranking criteria, this has an impact. About AustraIia, International students represent a significant source of funds, and performance review of staff as well as a the attractivity of University depend a lot of the success rate of courses... As a result, we have a big pressure to put good marks - or at least not too low - (a course knowned to be easy to pass is more attractive leading to a higher number of enrollments and better retention rates) and even at master's level, there is an interesting number of students unable to express themselves in basic English and who managed to pass !!! Beacuse with MCQ and the right marking criterias it is always possible to reach 50 %. But these graduates go back to their country very happy and promote the university very effectively. And as far as local students are concerned, because same standards are applied for equity reason, there is no need to be good or to work too hard to pass. This is a pity because the quality of the learning environment and the resources available both to staff and students are fantastic. In my experience, the level of research and quality of academic staff in these universities has very little to do with the level of most of their students .

University rankings must be fully based on measurable criteria and statistical data. May is better an international standardised ranking method to be agreed and adopted for this. I am not convinced the rankings presented here reflect the reality as there is possibly too much subjective bias.

This ranking system is basicly wrong! It is based SOLELY on the statistics of the invested funds into projects, the total number of kauched projects during the year (which evidently highly related to the first one), the number of students and infrastructure. I think that for any hungarian like me, it is very sad to see such a ranking, mostly based on a subjective point of view and not on the real knowledge of the students. I met a lot of foreign students in my life and i have to tell you, that none of them had so much basic knowledge as our students. On their respective field they must be pros, but in real life you suck if you just base your career on the researching of anti-matter molecules... US universities are a joke. They are on the same level as a hungarian high school...

I wonder how come Tokyo University ranked only 22th? even lower than Australian National University?

The Best Story of the World, Very udsewful information

Come on folks it is only a list... Don't get so hot under the coller about it.

At least after his fame and after these decades you have finally recognised Von Neumann as the distinguished son of your country, and keep harping on it, if any one cares to listen. That is really the joke

As a past student of one of those 5 HK Uni in the list I'm really glad to see HK's progress. May HK's next generation of graduates push harder in the next 5 years. Aim - to break through in reseach & get the first Nobel prize for HK, & not just copying the US financial system or western technologies. Come on HKUST, let us see your inventions similar to fibre-optic signal transmission. Can our dream come true?

I am wondering about the university ranked 201 th; a little bit painful, isn't it? Anyway,I have read somewhether, the University of Tehran ranked 368 this year...it seems to be fair.

I have something good and bad on the new ranking of the top 200 universities ofthe world. The fact is that each university in the worls is continuing their effort to develop tehir research-based products, the added-value programme of human capital development, the internationalization initiative and much more. We are lucky to have this standardized evaluation system. I am from Malaysia and my country had just celebrated its 52nd annyversary of independence. The Malaysian Government has been already allocating much budget on transforming the malaysian education system. Malaysia was once known to be among the nations of the world to allocate such extraordinary budget for the education prospect.

I am wondering about Asian Institute of Technology (AIT) based in Thailand. It,s an international institute with more than 2000 students from 50 countries around the world, located in south east Asia but not been ranked in this ranking. It,s too bad for such institute.

I am an Asian living in Europe. I do not proud at all with the achievement of some Asian universities here. It is clear that your rank is really based on the perspective of UK that of course benefit UK and commonwealth universities. If you ask many students from Asia in what country they want to continue their studies, most of them will surely tell you that they want to go to US. Why some of them chose to go to UK or Australia? Because they use English in those countries, not because of the quality. Ok, Cambridge and Oxford have a very good reputation, but so sorry to say, many will prefer to go to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, etc. and putting Berkeley below HKU is just as ridiculous as putting University of Malaya on the list of best 200. Internationalization of students and staffs doesn't really guarantee the quality of research and teaching in a university. Japan and Europe continent universities surely have less international students compared to US, UK and the commonwealth. But the quality of Tokyo Univ is surely above some Australian and other commonwealth universities. How many noble laureates that Australian universities or HKU produce compared to Tokyo and some Europe continent universities do? Most importantly, US, Germany, France, Japan, Sweden create many high tech products. It surely shows us that their universities are of high quality. This is something that students need to take into account when they chose a country to continue their study, not how many international students or staffs there.

To Desi: The world is changing so far that the fact yesterday may not be the reality of today. I have the opportunity as a student, or as a researcher, or a university lecturer/professor in Asia, Australasia, Europe and North America. Why students go to do their study in USA is not as simple as just because USA have a lot of world class institutions, which is of course a valid reason. I chose to go there myself, and so were many of my friends, because it was easier to get scholarships in USA than in UK. Another reason is that we did not know other European languages or Japanese, and we did not need to worry much about communication problems. Of course, some of my friends chose to go there because many people are going there. I have worked at top research laboratories and universities in USA, UK and Australia, and my experience is not overwhelmingly that UK and Australia are behind USA. There are various frontier areas that UK and Australia can outperform USA. Part of my valuable experience in studying in USA was to see that the diversity of backgrounds of the professors and students. This gives a vibrant and stimulative atmosphere that are essential to cultivate creative minds. In the university that I am working at presently we also have a broad background of staff coming from all corners of the Earth. We want the best in our department and the staff from around the world chose to come for developing their potential and career, and this makes the university international. As for the Nobel Laureates, if we take the results of three categories, physics, chemistry and medicine, and count only where the Laureates received their undergraduate education, which I consider the most crucial in shaping one's mind, the ratio between North America, Europe and Asia/Australasia is roughly 2:2:1. Australia produced 2 Laureates in the last five years, UK produced at least 4 and Japan produced at least 4. The institute of one of the 2009 Physics Laureate, Kao, is affiliated to Chinese University of Hong Kong and was a professor there before his retirement. Returning to our concern of which to choose between Hong Kong University or universities in USA, I would choose Hong Kong University if I wish to study Chinese Literature, but of course, if wish to study aeronautic engineering I would choose a US university in California. The ranking is a simple reference, and is not an absolute measure of a university. There are many good universities in USA. But, on the other hand, it is dangerous to take a view that universities in UK are inferior to universities in USA, and universities in Australia are weaker than universities in Japan, and universities in Asia, such as Hong Kong University are uncompetitive and unattractive. I happened to visit Asia and Australasia frequently for various academic matters and research in the last ten years. I have seen the rapid development in the applied and basic research in the area. I have met a number of world class researchers whose work can match their counterparts in the western world, at least in their fields. By the way, I am an academic in a research intensive university in Europe and had spent substantial time of my research/academic career in USA.

Correction: As for the Nobel Laureates, if we take the results of three categories, physics, chemistry and medicine, ** from 2005 to 2009 ** and count only where the Laureates received their undergraduate education, which I consider the most crucial in shaping one's mind, the ratio between North America, Europe and Asia/Australasia is roughly 2:2:1.

CKW, I agree with you to some extent. But, talking such an issue on the internationalization of staffs and students, of course you'll have the best brains from around the world if it's only the best that apply to study or work in your institution. However, that's not always the case. Yes, you need to do that if you're in a such small country like the Netherlands, but such a big country like Germany or France can fill the positions in the university by homegrown academicians of comparable quality with those from foreign lands. Thus, the presence of international staffs and students don't guarantee the quality of a university. Australian universities, for example, have attracted many foreign students by giving a lot of scholarships. Are those students really the best brain? Not always the case. Many the brightest chose to study in the US. Only if they don't have any other choice then they turn their head to Australia. Of course it doesn't mean that Australian universities are bad, but putting their positions higher than Berkeley is just so funny, and if you can't agree with me for this argument, you better look at the rank for separated fields, why is such university like Berkeley which is among the top 5 in many fields placed quiet low. And this isn't only about Berkeley, some universities also do not deserve their position in such a low rank. Also how about French system that separates universities and research (CNRS). CNRS is ranked top in Europe and no 6 in the World.

I thought Hong Kong was one of the cities in China.

The rankings are obviously biased in favour of English-speaking countries. I am currently attending a university in Australia and I find it laughable that any of them even make it in the top 200. My background is Polish, and having attended a Polish school for several years before coming to Australia, I can attest that there simply is no comparison. The material covered in Polish schools in year 4 wasn't attempted in Australian schools until year 9 or 10 of high school, and that's if it was taught at all. I can't imagine the situation being much different at university when starting from such a low base. Imagine physics and maths not being a requirement for a geophysics major! Why? Because of too few enrolments. As someone already mentioned, students here don't want to do maths, and it's not surprising really considering the poor maths education they received in high school. Just look at engineering professionals - just about anywhere you look, some of the top people in the industry are likely to have had their education in Eastern European countries. Not too many of their universities in the top 200 though...

It looks like people are still getting hot under the collar about this list....

To Deis: It is true that Australia is often unable to get the best oversea students, as most would prefer to go to US and Europe, in particular, UK. I agree that having international students should not be directly translated to an absolute measure of quality. For this reason we should not take the ranking as a guideline but as a soft indicator. The THE-QS ranking is not solely based on research output, and so excellent research institutions such as UC Berkeley is poorly ranked. However, when we look at the scores carefully, the low ranking of UC Berkeley is not due to low international student student and staff, but due to an exceptionally staff/student ratio. It is a score sheet according to the criteria of the THE-QS team, and I think we may just take it up to this point. The highly ranked universities are of good quality in general but the relative positions should not be taken too serious. UC Berkeley and the other research intensive universities in US will probably occupy high spots in the SJTU ranking, which will be released soon, as the relative positions of the universities did not change much over the years. By the way, in the past it is not easy for foreigners to get a professor position in Germany or France, but it began to change recently. The influx of international scholars do have positive impacts in the European institutions in terms of cultivating a more open and creative environment. To Tami: The quality of university education is not necessary related to what level of mathematical skills the students have acquired before they enter. If this is true, all universities in mainland China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Korea, ......, Singapore, Malaysia, ..... India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka .... should be outrank universities in US, UK and perhaps other west European countries. Of course I do agree with you that it is a great concern if university students are scared of mathematics. However, I know several physicist colleagues in my current university and in my previous universities who did not have much advanced mathematics in high schools but turned out to be excellent research physicists who crunch numbers and equations day in, day out. My research demands a lot of advanced mathematics, but I think mathematical skills can be acquired if one works hard (as it is what I have seen in my research students) but creativity is hard to cultivate.

Germany and France are doing most research outside of the universities in special institutions. Therefore the ranking for France and Germany is completely nonsense. Who prefers to study at "Case Western Reserve University" over Sorbonne, Science Po or RWTH Aachen? And Belgium producing more top universities than France is just ridiculous.

"Who prefers to study at "Case Western Reserve University" over Sorbonne, Science Po or RWTH Aachen?" I do, If I am a student in medicine interested in specialising in cardiology. Cleveland clinic has arguably the best cardiologists and cardiothoracic surgeons in the world, and provides unparalleled opportunities for a student in medicine. "And Belgium producing more top universities than France is just ridiculous" Your observation is ridiculous. For example the Katholieke U of Leuven has excellent science, technology and medical faculties and have won large EC grants with their excellent and innovative proposals. If anything the league table throws up is that many so called reputed universities have stopped being reputable ( they remained complacent wallowing in their past glory) and those who are getting their acts together are moving up the ladder.

only only only only Zanjan University It is best university in world

ok I am agree abas gholi mirza only Zanjan University

In line 50th,you wrote "the Gulf state" ,I want to mention that there is no "The gulf", it is "PERSIAN GULF" please correct your report immidiately.

Dear Sir/Madam would you please give me some information about the universities in Iran? I could not find any of Iranian university in the world top 200 universities. I would like to know the rank of Shiraz University. Thanks in advance Mehrnoosh

@Irani: "...,the Gulf states..."!

I worked at two of the top ranked universities in the UK and I can tell you that the difference in the quality of students in both was like poles apart. The fact that they are ranked next to each other, among the top, in these tables suggests that something is seriously wrong. While one of them was a truly first-class university, the other one was pathetic to say the least. E.g. At that other university, an engineering PhD student did not know the difference between a physicist and a physician! The students had very poor general knowledge but oodles of arrogance - they hardly speak to others. After all, they were studying at a prestigious university. Professors just assumed that everyone is bright, so didn't bother going into depth while teaching. That particular university is considered to be extremely rich, so it manages to somehow remain among the top, but in no way does it reflect the quality of education or research over there.

i cant belive taht tehran university in this rank?you sure?.......ita false

India is also a growing country for higher education,in future within five years it has been predicted that about 15 university will be there in " new global region ' of asian countries specially in engineering and technology.

Belgium produce more qualified universities than France is really ridiculous. The size of economy and population between those two just uncomparable. "To European", you're right that UK Leuven has a very good reputation, but France has many more universities that as good as or even better than Leuven. Academicians perhaps can only name Leuven and Free University as very good universities in Belgium, but they can mention many more for France: Ecole Poly, ENS, ENPC, Sc Po, Sorbonne 1,2,3,4-13, Strasbourg, Paris Central, and the list is still very long... Look, someone from Sorbonne 11 (Paris Sud) just won a nobel price few years ago and I just couldn't find the name of that university on the list top 100, weird, isn't it?...

It seems that the older the university the better the rank. This is certainly true of Harvard, Cambridge and Oxford. If there is an element of truth in this observation, then I feel that relatively new universities like the University of the South Pacific in Suva, Fiji (opened in 1968) deserves high praise indeed. Of the purported 9000 universities that were used in the Survey, it was ranked 597 which I felt was not bad at all. In fact in 2005 its Law School was ranked as fifth in the Commonwealth.

This is a UK biased commonwealth ranking. For non-English speaking countries such as France, Germany and Japan this rank is the joke.

I'm proud to be a student in University of Malaya, Malaysia, at the 180 top university in the world. It is an amazing increase since 2008. Good Job! Hidup Universiti Malaya!

The Gallic pride is hurt by the league table!! Not surprising at all! As a member of a panel of reviewers for the EC Framework programmes in sciences and applied sciences including engineering, I have read funding proposals by European consortia. The Belgian research proposals had been sharp and often contained the state of the art and many novel investigation approaches( had British and other European university members in the consortia), where as French universities seemed to think they had all the answers ( why apply for funding to support investigations if this is the case?) and their proposals reflected this. Seeing this, the French reviewers often marked other proposals down!! The likes of Grand Ecoles and Sorbonnes have been overtaken by upstarts ( one French professor said this to us) like Katholieke U of Leuven and other small (Dutch) universities in Belgium, simply because they could recruit researchers from around the globe as the language is not the barrier for the researchers ( English is accepted and indeed very valued as it is the lingua franca of the majority of prestigious journals) unlike the French universities which remain highly nationalistic, nursing the glory of bygone years and are grossly uncompetitive. I cannot expect a French person to accept this, but that is the truth! As regards to Nobel Prize award, it can be a measure of excellence of a small research Group within otherwise not a top-ranked university -for example about 4 years ago two researches from the University of Mass, Amherst won the Nobel Prize for "gene silencing" although University of Mass is not as highly rated as Harvard or Yale, and their department did not have a history of excellence of that calibre.

I can understand your disdain as Germans and French use their axis to dominate the EU through their uncompetitive measures. Do not bring Japan into this picture as Japanese have a healthy respect for English -speaking countries unlike the Germans and French. English is the lingua franca( as a colleague has said here) of modern scientific communication. In a way by not learning English, the French particularly isolate themselves from the modern world. Hence the perpetual thought of the Grand Ecoles being Grand always. Those who sneer at Australian universities should remember that Australia recruits scientists, technologists and academics to their universities from around the English-speaking world. Indeed one could see many German professors in areas like computing and biological sciences in Australian universities and their research institutes.

It is slightly problematic that English speaking countries have the marketing edge re. 'university rankings'. It clearly shows the favourable way of rankings to them. For example, a bizarre category of 'recruiting international students/staff' being a measure (probably this is one of the reasons for THES rankings re. income generation). The problem is that many countries do not sell education like English speaking countries. If you look at Shanghai University rankings of best universities, the American ones are again top, but there are only 4 British in top 50 (2008). In Europe Shanghai reckons the top ten: Cam (4), Ox (10), UCL (22), Swiss Fed Inst Tech, Imperial (27), Manchester(40) , Paris, Copenhagen, Utrecht and Paris 11. Their measures are based very much on academic performance, output and quality of education. Looks and feels far more realistic and British ones do still better than others in Europe.

as far as Italy's universities are concerned, there's been a lot of disputes over the quality of the ranking that has left out Italy. However, except a short comment by a "Mario" , there is no other italian making fruitful comments!!!! Italians do not even know English language enough to sustain an argument.....how can thy talk about world ranking?

i am very glad that tehran university have the ranking of 112 among engeneering and it universities .

the actual ranking of iranian univsities is very better than what qs and others say.iran after revolution of 1979 and especially afte the end of iraq-iran war has gained and reached to highest levels of improvements in engeneering and natural sciences.

iran have some top universities like tehran and sharif and isfahan universities .these universities besides amirkabir and some other universities are at a very high level of knowledge and have many best professors and students .

this ranking for iranians is not acceptable. because the rank of iranian universities is very higher and better .for proovie of this fact please look at iran,s developments in varrious sciences like health & natural sciences and some high level technologies like nuclear and nano.

@poorfar, leila and pooyan. Have a look where your professors publish their work, my guess is that they will not publish in the best journals. Indeed a couple of years ago two 'professors' contacted me pretending to be PhD students and asked if I could write a paper for them!

The University of Gothenburg in Sweden is the worst school I have ever studied in my whole life (4 in total). I am an international student at Handels (its business school) and all I see are non motivated teachers, free rider students everywhere, exchange students without any basic knowledge put together in the same courses as the Master students, lecture rooms crowded leading students to sit on the floor, schedule conflicts due to poor organization from the staff, failure on being re-accredited by EQUIS this year and so on... Bad, very bad... So if the University of Gothenburg has climbed in the ranking this year this is due to research at other units than Handels, which itself is disgusting. So be careful when looking into those rankings....

@whippet.i don`t know that you are from which country.you know that the number of essays in foriegn journals is not a good element for showing the level of scientific improvment in a university.many iranian professors don`t believe to publish their work inwestern journals of countries like usa ,uk &canada.iran in early past that probably your country didn`t exist on the map of the world had university (jondi shapoor) and now with emergence of islamic revolution that one of it`s important aims was bringing iran into development and welfare ,we have reached to many important and strategic scientific gains...

"many iranian professors don`t believe to publish their work inwestern journals of countries like usa ,uk &canada.iran in early past that probably your country didn`t exist on the map of the world had university (jondi shapoor)" Sure the president of Iran and Ayatollah's do not approve of publications run by infidels and zionist collaborators in the West. Yes indeed, we go back to which era? Stuff and nonsense.

Remember that the Shanghai index is biased against the Humanities: it only contains citations to journal articles, and the relative weighting of citations rates in sciences vs humanities is set at an arbitrary factor of 2.

@leila: I was simply giving an example of why universities in your country are not in the top 200.

@whippet :and i wanted to tell a truth to you :universities of iran have strongly improved and developed in varrious sciences through recent decades.we don`t want that qs put our universitis in the top 200,now we really are in that.

In a world that is and has always been beset by so many basic problems, is it really a honour to be considered the best university? Is this not another way of saying "Parents, give us your uninitiated children and after 4 years we will transform them into the most talented brains in the field of producing goods that people do not really need and while we're at it we'll teach your sons and daughters to devise ingenious 'financial instruments' that seduce the money-markets, dazzle the regulators and lure the gullible masses into borrowing money for mortgages that they cannot afford and liposuctions that their vanity craves". "Send your child to Cambridge, Oxford, Yale or MIT and the investment you made will be handsomely rewarded". "You'll be able to say "My son, the investment banker". Have any of the contributors whose national pride has been hurt by their beloved country's unfavourable showing in the league table stopped for a moment to consider that it was probably these same venerable institutions that produce the architects of the recent catastrophic collapse in the world economy? After all where have the upper echelons of the World Bank, The IMF, Wall Street, The Square Mile, the UN and countless other influential institutions been educated? Take the American car industry as a case in point. Are we to believe that its upper ranks are not dominated by Ivy League alumni? I dare say that they are. If so, how come they didn't invest in clean, green technology long ago? Let us refrain from chauvinism. Jingoistic rivalry has led to enough suffering, though I see absolutely nothing wrong in taking the viewpoint that "I am Dutch, Bolivian or Palestinian, and in my capacity as an academic, researcher or student I would like to make the most positive contribution that I can to human development, and if that endeavour is consistently the raison d'être of education in my country, so much the better. And if my neighbouring country displays a zeal and passion that leads to the advancement of humankind and the alleviation of suffering, then I shall applaud it". We are all members of the same family. We all have a vested interest in looking after this world that we are temporary tenants of. So it should not matter which university employs the most foreign staff or has the most citations or the best student/ staff ratio. What should matter and what should take precedence is the human and environmental friendliness of the education that it provides. Universities spend fortunes on complex research programmes. Which universities are spending time and effort on producing graduates that will sell the message that 'the world does not need any more children", or the message that 'parenting is so unbelievably difficult that if the true magnitude of its importance were known, most people would run a mile before contemplating it?" Which universities are producing 'servants of the people', who are able to devise seductive slogans to the effect that "Less is More?" I dare say that if the contents of the education were evaluated according to 'human friendliness' criteria, they would be deemed hazardous. Much like the technology, food, vacations etc that we are mesmerized by. We need smart, creative servants of the people, not smart, creative self-servants. Let us not forget the correlation between education, power and exploitation. The Prime Ministers who presided over the British Empire were all educated at Eton and other elitist private boys schools and then Oxford and Cambridge. I advocate that for any comparative educational survey to be anything more than a "Look at how good we are at producing self-serving yuppies", one of the criteria should be a commitment to human development and the alleviation of suffering. We talk about making technology and politics green, let's introduce that into education. By the way, I am British by birth but please do not hold that against me, haha !!

! ! ! I'm currently studying in Melbourne University from overseas. From my firsthand experience, in short,the ranking itself is highly valuable in its exterior despite its valuelessness in essence. It's made a good benchmark for those looking to join any of these universities, however in fact, the outcome can turn out to be very different and everyone's reflection varies with their own personalities. In reality, rankings is just a bubble in academy to distinguish academics through academic qualifications, waiting to burst when people find out it is ill-matched. What truly matters already lies on one's belief in the fundamental value of education they tend to achieve. Feel free to oppose my comment, debates make progress~

where could i get the list of top law schools in the world?

where could i get the list of top law schools in the world?

I have a very simple question to ask- on what basis did the Times (or whoever they commissioned to prepare the ranking) present the staff student score? For example, the official statistics (taken from US News college guide) lists the following student faculty ratios: UC Berkeley 15/1 UCLA 16/1 U Michigan 15/1 As you see, Berkeley has the same ratio as U Michigan, and a better one than UCLA. On the other hand, Times claims that Berkeley's staff student score is 25, which is almost 2 times smaller than UCLA's 46, and more than 3 times as worse as Michigan's 85. Given that Times weighs this score quite heavily in the ranking, suggesting that it is somehow a reflection of the "quality of teaching", I find it somewhat surprising that, according to them, Berkeley's teaching quality is so much worse than UCLA's and Michigan. While I also find it controversial that teaching quality is captured by this crude metric, it's more disturbing that their numbers are so far off the official statistics. I hope somebody at Berkeley (and possibly other affected universities) take up this issue with the Times.

University of Malaya, ranked 180th, is presently taking disciplinary action against 8 students for inviting politicians of the federal Opposition to adjudicate a debate and grace a society's annual general meeting. Campus authoritarianism and infringements on academic freedom are obviously not captured in the rankings, and for most universities, they never arise. At least not to such an egregious extent. But the fact that University of Malaya can secure a high ranking - a vast improvement from previous years - makes a mockery of THES' ranking. Surely this opprobrious act of flouting students' rights of assembly, expression and thought, will count as a demerit against the university's integrity and reputation, no? We'll see next year...

It will be interesting to see where Malaysia's IIUM, INCEIF & UM will be ranked if a specific area like "ISLAMIC FINANCE" is evaluated. My guess is Malaysia will have representative in the top 5 institutions. Another capacity Building exercise which Malaysia via the Central Bank and/or MIFC should undertake! http://halalfinancing.blogspot.com

Nice... university of indonesia 201...

Nice... university of indonesia 201...

this ranking is seriously biased towards uk universities. not really a surprise because this is a british ranking. i think its safe to say that the shanghai jiao tong university rankings are now more reliable than this ranking. furthermore there will be no bias because it is compiled in china. i mean come on. stanford in 16th place?! thats ridiculus. in the shanghai rankings stanford is ranked at no 2 or 3.how can imperial or ucl be ranked above stanford or even mit and caltech for that matter. preposterous!

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Jiao tong's rankings are even worse! they are biased against arts and humanities, have very narrow criteria, like who gets published in Science and Nature. They even give credit to the institutions where Nobel laureates were undergradautes! Seriously,

For Thailand, the oldest University(90 years) is Chula-long-korn U. -in 2009, Chulalongkorn University is 138 th world ranking and 35 th asian University ranking. -in 2008, Chulalongkorn University is 166 th world ranking. MOVE FORWARD CU. -----------> : )

To Ja: May be you are from Japan. And I, as a Tokyo Univ. grad (but not a Japanese), feel that, this ranking system is not a joke. It's quite reliable. I haven't been to those top-ranked UK, USA, Aus universities, but have read their research and stuff. At least they are readable cause all are in English. Visit a homepage of a Japanese university. Allmost all Japanese can read those research things. But can other nationals read those Kanjis and all? So what is the use of those reseaeches, I mean international point of view? And please compare those "International staff score" and "International students score" for Japanese universities with those of other "english speaking" universities.

Why English-speaking unis dominate is simple - English is the academic global lingua franca and if academics are publishing in any other language than English, then no-one reads it, no-one cares - you might as well not bother. This is obviously very difficult for French-speakers to understand, with their laughable delusions of grandeur and belief that French is an international language but tough. Funny how those unis in non-English-speaking countries who are on the list allow the teaching of English and where the academics are fluent in English. To the clowns at the Sorbonne, Sciences Po etc - it is really great and admirable that you refuse to learn English, but here's a newsflash: no-one cares and no-one reads your work.

All the talk about rankings is moot. To those who claim or want their own university to be highly ranked, ask yourself this question: what is your contribution (for e.g. in research)? If you contributed nothing, then it really doesn't matter what you or the rankings say. Top schools know that they do good research and don't even brag about their ranks.

yup I think all the universities have rocketed up their ability to produced scholars. So, I'm glad that 1 university from Malaysia been put at the top 200 table. Well done Universiti Malaya.

IN TECHNOLGY RANKINGS,INDIA IS FAR BETTER,BUT STILL IIT'S ARE PLACED VERY LOW..PLEASE CHECK..

great job !!!

Economic and technological power doesn't necessarily correlate to good education, as it's not only about producing wealth and technology, but also about producing arts and innovation, etc. If you think that this ranking should cater to the economic and technological power of a particular country, then you are sure to be disappointed and whiny. Countries like Japan are able to produce top-rate products and culture which aren't necessarily influenced by their own universities there but rather by the social culture of innovation and the natural talent of the people who may not have received their training in universities. HK universities rank very highly on this list, and that's because the top-dogs there are so obsessed with chasing international rankings rather than focus their research on what's really needed in HK itself. It's another example of a culture so obsessed with rankings and numbers.

Sir, I have been selected for MS in Mechanical Engg. in Cranfield University, UK. But it seems it has slipped out of top 200 in 2008 and 2009. Can you email me the prospects in terms of career and employment for the above course there? Kindly mail me.

The report seems incomplete to me. I can't judge until I see a full report on the questionnaire(s) and how they were conducted.

I love some of the bitter claims on this thread. Several resentful losers in the table's eyes have claimed that it is biased towards english speaking universities. since English is the most widely spoken language in Universities and 2nd in the world, this actually means it is a fair representation. secondly, that "english speakers do well means they have been favoured" is a non sequitor. the evidence could also mean they have been deemed more meritous. The arguments here are endemic of the narrow mindedness all but the very highest universities fail to cure. The very intellectual poverty of some of the criticisms on here belies their arguments since it affirms the value of degrees from places such as Oxbridge.

This is just because the best minds of the world study in the top two countries

You report the rise of Asia, and yet the one Japanese institution that consistently made it into the top 20--U. of Tokyo--has slipped out. Kyoto U. has stalled in the top 30. Is Japan really making any progress? And are these rankings skewed in favor of anglophone institutions?

Well, I am almost done with my graduation & I plan for masters next year. Europe is really a huge attraction. Also East Asian universities. Lets see where I go. Any suggestions people? PS: I'm an Aeronautical Engineering student

that`s great! but i can`t see any trace of reality. where are "Sharif","Tehran","Amir Kabir","Industrial Isfahan","Khaje Nasir Industrial" universities in your ranking?!

Ranking is amazing .I am research scholar in China.Much impressed by position of HongKong in the list.

There are many factors that contribute to the inclusion of a university into the World Class Universities, such as top 200. The creativity of the professors of a university in research which is finally published in International Journals; the size of international student enrollment; the citation index of the professors' work; the acceptability of the alumni in work place; probably the activity and creativity of student body. Traditionally, some wise people say "Good teacher is resulted in good student." This statement may be acceptable and make sense. The problem is how to train faculty members to be able to write in academic English. In this way, it is possible for them to write pieces of research in English of academic standard. Certainly, it takes time and costs a fortune/a lot of money. Sending as many lecturers as possible abroad on local expenses is the best measure to take. Our country Indonesia has never seen yet its university reaches or jumps into top 200 like Malaysia. However, Indonesian Government has allocated 20% of development fund for education. That is a good will, but we cannot see the result in near future. We may also want to change academic culture. Our culture is very local. On the other hand, academic culture is global in nature. Therefore, we may want change our academic culture to International academic culture by promoting English speaking culture, English writing culture, and internet usage to make us familiar with International academic standards or we left well behind with our stupid culture and locally minded academicians. Be international ! Drs. Syarwan Ahmad, MA ( Lecturer of IAIN (State Institute for Islamic Studies) Ar-Raniry, Banda Aceh and Phd student in Faculty of Education University of Malaya).

There are many factors that contribute to the inclusion of a university into the World Class Universities, such as top 200. The creativity of the professors of a university in research which is finally published in International Journals; the size of international student enrollment; the citation index of the professors' work; the acceptability of the alumni in work place; probably the activity and creativity of student body. Traditionally, some wise people say "Good teacher is resulted in good student." This statement may be acceptable and make sense. The problem is how to train faculty members to be able to write in academic English. In this way, it is possible for them to write pieces of research in English of academic standard. Certainly, it takes time and costs a fortune/a lot of money. Sending as many lecturers as possible abroad on local expenses is the best measure to take. Our country Indonesia has never seen yet its university reaches or jumps into top 200 like Malaysia. However, Indonesian Government has allocated 20% of development fund for education. That is a good will, but we cannot see the result in near future. We may also want to change academic culture. Our culture is very local. On the other hand, academic culture is global in nature. Therefore, we may want to change our academic culture to International academic culture by promoting English speaking culture, English writing culture, and internet usage to make us familiar with International academic standards or we left well behind with our stupid culture and locally minded academicians. Be international ! Drs. Syarwan Ahmad, MA ( Lecturer of IAIN (State Institute for Islamic Studies) Ar-Raniry, Banda Aceh and Phd student in Faculty of Education University of Malaya).

@leila & davood, sorry to call these simple endemic arguments or even national egoism. your top/high/very better, or whatever you name universities' allegations after 2008 rankings where they found a place 400-500, evidenced their satisfactions about their achievements and their hope to continue to rank higher (check news archives in your country). to get a better understanding on how your scientists contribute in any area (of course this is not a only important criterion), get a percentage of yours and compare to those of other countries such as china, india etc. as another argument pointed, the era you go back is probably 1500 years! and you have no idea how those sciences have been progressed/generated ever after.

lol at the high rankings of british u's

reader what is a 'u'!

I agree with this universities ranking. Of course, the European Universities and the European System Education are obsolete and old. The spirit of the Professors is not openminded. There is a huge axymetric relation between a Professor and the student. The environment of doing the research is archaic and of the middle age. You have the Sun King and the researcher. That is the reality of the European Universities.

I am from New Delhi the Capital of India and want to say that the List is Exciting and very encouraging to See IIT Mumbai and Delhi Come in the List . The whole of India is working to Show up in your list up higher soon. Cheers

best of luck Surya...we all wish so. But still MHRD, AICTE and UGC do not know what they are doing.

IM from iran i dont agree with these ranking my aunt is studing in united kingdom & she said to me irainian students have more education than their students in their major

I'm from Iran. I and my friends in Iran, don't agree with this ranking. As a matter of fact you don't know exactly about Iran and its universities! Besides you should know that the best professors of American universities are from Iran! This is a fact that you can't refuse! So Iranian students are intelligent. therefore Iranian universities are in better rank. Please research better! This is not a professional ranking!

You Know!!! I'm surprised! I can't see "sharif" , "Amirkabir" , "Tabriz", "Tehran" ,"Khaje nasir" and "Isfahan"University!!!